Natalie Mashaal | Executive Producer
In the world of Reality TV today- compelling worlds,
unique people, obscure professions, and Experts are
a critical component of all programming content. For
our readers and members pitching, its important to
understand how Producers view projects and what they
look for when casting. To that point, we're very
pleased to bring you an exclusive conversation with
Executive Producer and Television Branding Expert,
Natalie Mashaal.
Ms. Mashaal brings an extensive background in
casting and producing for The Oprah Winfrey
Show and other hit daytime programs under
the King World banner. She is the
founder of Kingfish Productions, and Executive
Producer on dozens of pilots for various major
networks, as well as serving as Showrunner for
"Relationship Rehab" on the Style Network. She is
currently sharing her professional insights through
live speaking engagements on the subjects of
"Branding Yourself For The Media" and "How To
Create, Develop and Sell Your Reality Show". We
welcome her to our Executive Interview Series at the
TV Writers Vault.
Scott Manville: Natalie, thank you so much for being
with us. I’m excited to see some of the work you’re
doing in television, and I know our members and
readers will appreciate your experience.
Natalie Mashaal: Thank you so much for having me,
Scott. This should be fun!
SM: From what we're experiencing at the site, and
seeing in TV development, it seems like virtually
every spectrum of our world and society may deliver
people and subjects ripe for reality TV. What's your
perspective?
NM: That’s true! Interesting people or places or
sectors of the world – tiny slices of life that we
never realized existed – those make for the best
stories. Or a person living a life so different from
ours, like Honey Boo Boo. Or an expert with an
outrageous personality or specialty, like Dog the
Bounty Hunter. Or something we know exists but have
very little access or information about like the
Amish. The best thing to do is to look at your own
life first – who do you know or where do you have
access that might be interesting?
SM: What can a person who is the subject of a
proposed TV show, or creator of a new show concept
communicate to you as a Producer when writing a
pitch? What should they key on in any pitch to peak
your interest?
NM: Presentation is huge. I am very self-aware when
taking pitches. I really listen to myself – am I
interested in what this person is saying? Does it
intrigue me? Do I want to hear more? If you don’t
get me at the beginning, I’m usually humoring you
the rest of the time. I do listen to the rest of the
pitch and I do try to spin it and ‘fix’ whatever I
feel is missing, but rarely change my mind. It just
reinforces my notion when I am asking hard questions
and seeing big holes. If it isn’t packaged well, I
am out. Way back when, I would try and cast a good
idea with no access. I would try to get access
because the idea was so intriguing – most of the
time I was just wasting my time. I also like to see
things visually so I can better understand the
person, place, slice of life you are trying to
explain to me. I want to see it for myself. I am
always super excited when a project is packaged and
always take it much more seriously. But, I am
usually annoyed when I find out that a
well-packaged, good idea has already been pitched at
a bunch of places without success. That just usually
means it wasn’t pitched properly or to the right
person. So now that the contact/network is now used
– we can’t pitch there again, and that I will
probably pass on the project. Be very strategic
about how, when, and with and to whom you pitch your
project – you may not get another chance.
SM: Can you share with us an overview of the
opportunities you see for people in reality-based
television (Reality, Docu-series, Talk series,
etc.)? What can people go after, and what do you
have in mind when you’re scouting people?
NM: Casting for main characters for a reality show
is tricky – I am looking for just the right
combination of ordinary (relatable) and
extraordinary (memorable). The point of all story
telling is to elicit emotion from the viewer –
happy, sad, appalled, disgusted, envious,
disappointed, shocked, elated…whatever. The
characters are the measure as to whether or not a
story will play out in a compelling way. As for
booking Experts as the star of their own reality
show, the same applies. I need you, as the expert,
to draw the drama out of yourself and the supporting
characters to create something interesting to watch.
Now, daytime is a whole other beast. An expert in
daytime, while needing to be dynamic and
interesting, is also about trust, credibility, and
relevance. What information do you have that is new,
current, or updated from the last time I saw a
segment on weight loss, looking younger, or potty
training? That’s what is important from a
professional standpoint. Personally, I want you to
be interesting, presentable, flexible, and likeable.
Know your stuff inside and out. Take some media
training – know that lingo. I shouldn’t have to
explain what sound bytes are and how to speak in
them.
But know this – we are looking for you! We want to
find you. When you are everything I mentioned above,
you make us look good. So position yourself so we
can find you. Be out there. Get quoted in magazine
and newspaper articles. Start a blog or be a guest
blogger on a respected, well-trafficked site. Write
a book. Do television – local TV is how most start.
Do a podcast. Let me find you on youtube. All that
is an investment in perfecting the way you position
your brand.
SM: Knowing the professional advice you share in
some of your speaking engagements, I see that you
really are hitting on a unique niche of opportunity
for people breaking into television by getting cast
as an Expert, Author, or other authority on subjects
related to a show’s content. How did you first come
to understand this specific area?
NM: Well, Scott, I was lucky enough to have worked
with some of the smartest people in television. My
very first job in TV was at The Oprah Winfrey Show.
Every day was like a Masters class in television.
From then on, I knew how to be uncompromising in my
search for the most niche expert at the top of their
industry with the most current and relevant
information to add. Personality is a must, must,
must – you must engage me. If I don’t want to listen
to you, I can’t expect millions of viewers to want
to, right? I must respect and like you the minute I
lay eyes on you, or its over. So many experts today
don’t know how to present themselves – their
"walking brand" – properly. My advice is threefold –
get to know your brand, get to know yourself, and
get to know how the television industry works – what
producers are looking for and how to fill that need
– how you fit in as the solution.
SM: And if they’re pitching themselves as an Expert
or authority on a specific subject, what is
important for them to communicate? What does a
Producer want to see in a profile?
NM: Television experience goes a long way. We want
to be able to convey to the viewer that you are
credible – via a degree, book, business, website,
experience. Every last thing should be
professionally done – your headshot, business cards,
website. Your blog should be current. We want to
know you mean business and that you don’t just
dabble in your expertise. Nothing makes me happier
than when most of my questions are answered before
the pre-interview.
SM: I’d like to focus on “creating” the pitch, for a
proposed reality-based program. You’ve been an
executive scouting the TV Writers Vault, you’ve
probably seen tons of writing styles from both
experienced creators and amateurs. What does the
amateur often miss in communicating their concept?
NM: I know it sounds so basic but I rarely read
one-sheets or treatments without spelling errors, or
errors in grammar. I’m out if that happens. That
means you didn’t care enough to proof your work. Or
you know your weakness and didn’t care enough to
have someone else proof your work. To me, the best
writing styles are those that flow -confident but
not unrealistic. Phrases like ‘…destined to be known
as the craziest reality show ever…’ I highly doubt
that.
SM: How important is the Logline, and first
paragraph of a Synopsis in a pitch?
NM: Logline – so important. As I mentioned before,
you have 10 seconds to 1 minute, so it had better be
good. Be sure it sums up the concept and the hook,
and makes me want to hear ‘"How?" How are you going
to do that? I can’t wait to hear the details!
SM: What advice can you give to Writers and Creators
on conceptualizing projects... you know, cooking up
ideas!?
NM: Keep your eyes and ears open. Be aware of what
is around you – what is unique, or funny, or
bizarre, or fascinating. What makes you not want to
look away. That’s a good idea.
SM: What type of projects or formats are ideal?
What’s hot right now?
NM: Well, the best formats are those that can be
sold internationally – that’s where the real money
comes into play. ‘Pop Idol,’ for example, was a hit
reality show in the UK. That format of a singing
competition using judges to comment and the country
to vote, was sold all over the world. All each
country had to do was plug in their own host and
judges. America, of course, knows it as ‘American
Idol.’ Needless to say, huge hit. On a more domestic
stage, the best projects are those that have ‘legs’
or can continue for countless seasons if successful,
and those that cross as many demographics as
possible. To use ‘American Idol’ again, viewers
young and old, from all backgrounds – cultural and
economical, from which most parts of the country are
represented at one point or another (someone to root
for) watch the show and vote. With the market as
saturated as it is right now, viewers are also
flocking to shows with which they find some sort of
connection like cooking or interior design or
business. Also, the big shows from back in the day
that are well produced are still in the mix and
doing well – The Bachelor, The Amazing Race,
Survivor, Celebrity Apprentice. People are looking
for quality.
SM: Can you share with us any details on current
projects you’re involved in? I’m guessing not, but
we want a clue about any irons in the fire you’ve
got!
NM: Now who is going to hire me if I give that up?
SM: I had to try! In addition to your Producing and
Casting, I’d love to know more about your expanded
business, and what you offer the industry and
creators of projects.
NM: I just recently opened my doors to consulting
and speaking about the media. Understanding the
media – taking the mystery and aloofness out of the
mix for people. I consult and speak about Branding
Yourself for the Media – how you ARE your project,
business, service, or product. What does it take to
get on television? What materials do I need? What is
a Producer looking for? How do they get their ideas?
How do you fit into those ideas? Once I get on
television, what do I do? What is the process? I
take the mystery out which builds up your confidence
and changes your odds. As for selling a television
show, I consult and speak on How To Pitch and Sell
Your Non-Scripted Show Idea. This is all about show
development – are you asking the right questions and
do you have the answers. Preparation – do you have
all the materials you need including a one-sheet and
treatment, and selling – understanding the potential
client (in this case the network) and how to
position yourself – your brand – for success. Check
out my website www.nataliemashaal.com for more!
SM: I think it serves our writers and creators well
to know a bit of what its like dealing with a
Network, Net Executives, and the challenges of
pitching and selling from the position of a
Producer. Can you give us a perspective on that?
NM: The most important thing to remember is to be
flexible. The pitch will change depending on the
network to which you are pitching. In fact, the
pitch will change in the room as the network’s
development execs give clarity on what it is exactly
that they are looking for. Just because you have a
great idea that would be a great fit for a
particular network does not mean that it’s a
homerun. Even if the exec loves it, the network
might be looking for a competition-based reality
show and not a docu-reality. It’s all about what the
client is looking for and how easily you can
manipulate the idea, but remain organic to the
concept, to fit the networks needs.
SM: Now, when a project gets a “Go”, how do things
change with regard to your activities on that
project?
NM: Sometimes I am the creator of the project, and
sometimes I am not. But I always have an agreement
in tact on any idea I pitch. I'm usually not the
Show runner on a series, although I have done it,
because that ties me up. I am typically an Executive
Producer by credit and consult on the projects. I
will often do a casting reel or a non-airing pilot
in order to sell a show to a Network. As for the
rights, those are given up to the network upon
selling.
SM: What should people know about the realities of
being involved in a production, or being cast as the
key subject of a show?
NM: You should be aware that in order for the show
to be a success, the audience has to be able to
connect emotionally. In order for the audience to
connect emotionally, raw stuff, real stuff has to
surface. It’s not that reality producers are looking
to ruin anyone’s lives - they're looking for a way
to connect via emotions.
SM: For the Writer/Creator who sells a concept to
you, what’s the process like for them? More
specifically, if you buy the concept and you’re the
producing company, what relationship does a creator
find themselves in with regard to the development
process and production of the show?
NM: I don’t "buy" an idea from someone. I make a
deal for exclusive rights to sell that show for a
certain amount of time. In that time, the creator is
critical in the development stage for access to
proprietary relationships that person has built. As
for what role the creator will play if the show gets
picked up – that’s up for negotiation. It really
depends on your experience. A creator will often be
a Consulting Producer, Co-Producer, Co-Executive
Producer, or just a Creator.
SM: Tell me a bit about your own favorite shows on
TV right now. What grabs you and why?
NM: I am drawn to the big shows that are well done
by producers like Mark Burnett. He is a mentor to me
– though I don’t think he knows it! I respect the
way he takes an idea that resonates with a large
sector of people and turns the volume up. And, if an
idea doesn’t work, he moves on. Don’t know until you
try.
SM: Natalie, thanks for sharing your own Expertise,
and giving us your time. We look forward to your
continued success!
NM: This was fun! Thanks for having me, Scott!